The Angus & Pete Show CX Podcast

Ep 30 | The Whistlestop Tour

Welcome to Episode 30 of The Angus and Pete Show. This special episode serves as a comprehensive recap of the first 29 episodes.
The idea was inspired by avid listener Cyrille from Nairobi, who found episode recaps useful for weekly podcasts to revisit content or catch up on missed episodes. Finding their own back catalogue "heavy going," Angus and Pete enlisted their friendly AI assistant to summarise their journey so far, providing quick rundowns and reasons to revisit specific segments.
Key themes covered across the first 29 episodes include:
Analysts & Industry Evolution: Understanding the influential, yet often opaque, role of analysts like Gartner, and the history and jargon of the CX industry.
AI: Explored across multiple episodes, focusing on business value over technical jargon, hybrid human-AI collaboration, personalisation, ethics, sustainability, cost of ownership, and early findings on savings and workforce impact.
RFPs & Sales Strategy: A multi-part series on running effective Request for Proposal processes for buyers, and crafting high-quality, honest proposals for sellers.
Building a Practice & Go-to-Market: Advice for sellers and resellers on transitioning to cloud solutions, choosing partners, and aligning product, marketing, and sales for consistent messaging and successful launches.
EMEA & Cultural Nuances: Highlighting that EMEA is not a single market, emphasising the need for country-specific research, local trust, and understanding cultural impacts on business.
Boardroom & Business Cases: Discussions on why business cases are rejected, equipping champions with financial metrics, and understanding CFO and board priorities like strategic alignment, ROI, TCO, and risk mitigation over short-term gains.
Customer Interaction: Covering effective discovery, making pitches stand out, demonstration types, and the evolving role of outbound contact with a shift towards messaging and the concept of "Uber agents".
Proposition & Sales Engineers: Defining the difference between brand, product, and proposition, and the crucial role of sales engineers in selling product value.
Angus and Pete hope this overview encourages listeners to re-immerse themselves in the show. Don't forget to follow The Angus and Pete Show page on LinkedIn and subscribe on your favourite podcast platform.

Ep 29 | News Beat: June 2025

In this episode, your hosts Angus Peacey and Pete Brown delve into three compelling news articles from 10th June, exploring the dynamic interplay between humans and Artificial Intelligence (AI) in customer service, contact centres, and customer experience (CX)
News Topics Dissected:
The Human Touch in AI Assistants: Drawing on an article from Fast Company titled "AI Assistants Still Need a Human Touch" by Alexander Kosavan, we explore why AI, despite its advancements, still struggles with understanding user context and intent.
Gartner's Prediction: AI and Workforce Reduction: We dissect a thought-provoking Gartner article predicting that 50% of organisations will abandon plans to reduce their customer service workforce due to AI.
Tackling High Agent Turnover in Contact Centres: Based on an article from customerthink.com by Wailios Aaron Batsis, this discussion confronts the persistent problem of high staff turnover in contact centres.
 
Tune in to discover the hosts' "biting judgment and unpopular opinions" on these pressing topics, and gain valuable insights into the evolving landscape of customer engagement.
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Key Takeaways for Listeners:
AI Needs a Human-Centric Approach: AI, in its current state, often struggles with context and emotional intelligence. While it can be useful for tailoring content, over-personalisation can be counterproductive or creepy.
AI is Not a Panacea; Human Touch Remains Critical: Many organisations are re-evaluating their plans to replace human agents with AI. The focus is shifting to how AI can support and enhance human capabilities, rather than eliminate them, as trust is paramount in customer service.
Embrace the Hybrid Model for Best Results: The most effective way to deliver a good customer experience is through a hybrid model that combines AI with human agents. AI should act as a complement to humans, not a replacement, aiding efficiency and accuracy while humans provide empathy.
"Digital First, Not Digital Only" is Key: Before attempting to implement AI, organisations must establish a strong foundation of clear digital journeys and channels. AI should be integrated strategically into this existing digital framework, not seen as a prerequisite for going digital.
Re-evaluate Traditional Contact Centre Staffing Models: The current model for contact centre staffing is flawed, leading to high turnover and high costs. Exploring cultural changes, freelance models, and flexible hybrid working options can improve agent satisfaction, reduce churn, and potentially enhance service quality.
AI Can Support Freelance Agents: If considering a freelance agent model, AI can play a crucial role in providing the consistency and depth of knowledge that might otherwise be a concern with independent agents.

Ep 28 | CX Insider: Vinay on CX in the Boardroom

Join us for an exclusive deep dive with CX Insider Vinay Parmar, Managing Director of Customer Whisperers Ltd, as he shares invaluable insights from his journey from contact centre agent to board-level executive. Discover the stark realities of how customer experience plays out in the boardroom and learn what truly resonates with senior leadership. This episode offers a candid look at bridging the gap between sales and strategic decision-making.
Here are the key takeaways from our conversation with Vinay:
• Lived experience is incredibly valuable for leaders as it fosters empathy and enables a deeper understanding of frontline operations, helping to challenge narratives from the top.• Customer Experience (CX) encompasses all customer touchpoints, forming collective memories that drive future decisions, extending far beyond typical customer service or contact centre metrics.• Inconsistency in customer interactions significantly erodes trust and loyalty, impacting a brand's reputation and future business relationships.• Boards fundamentally prioritise risk and reward, focusing on increasing revenue, reducing costs, and ensuring regulatory compliance when evaluating initiatives.• Effective selling to the boardroom requires active listening, thorough research into specific problems, and presenting solutions with utmost simplicity, avoiding generic pitches or complex technical jargon.
If you want to find out more about Vinay or contact him, go to his website: https://customerwhisperers.com/

Ep 27 | GTM? Who's Job is it Anyway?

Curious how software products successfully reach customers? Episode 27 of The Angus and Pete Show tackles a listener's dilemma: defining the different go-to-market roles in a software vendor. Angus and Pete break down key functions, from product strategy and channel partnerships to sales enablement, especially for SaaS products with reseller channels. Learn why clear ownership, consistent messaging, and strong enablement are crucial to avoid chaos and drive market success.
Takeaways from this episode:
Product is the Foundational Role: The Product House defines the product, its market fit, features, packaging, pricing strategy, and even operational elements like billing and order processing.
Channel Strategy is Critical for Market Entry and Scale: The Channel organisation owns the route to market through partners, focusing on segmentation, recruitment, enablement, and financial incentives like spiffs and market development funds.
Sales Enablement Bridges the Gap: A defined sales enablement function translates product and marketing material into actionable insights for both internal sales teams and external reseller partners, ensuring consistent and efficient communication.
Consistent Messaging is Non-Negotiable: All teams, internal and external, must deliver a unified message, with the proposition "nailed up front," to avoid buyer confusion or exploitation of inconsistencies.
Authoritative Cross-Functional Ownership is Paramount: Success hinges on clear, authoritative owners in the Product House, Channel organisation, and Sales, who must collaborate seamlessly due to their fundamental interdependencies.

Ep 26 | It's the Proposition, Stupid!

In this episode, Angus and Pete focus on the significance of sales propositions, brand perception, and the shift from product-centric to proposition-centric strategies. They discuss how understanding the differences between brand, product, and proposition can enhance marketing efforts and drive sales. The conversation emphasizes the importance of crafting compelling propositions that resonate with buyers and differentiate offerings in a crowded market.
Takeaways
Understand the difference between brand, product, and proposition.
Buyers are focused on their own problems, not on your product specs.
Differentiating is key to competitive advantage.
Use the right language for your audience at the right time.
A strong proposition is essential for effective selling.
A good proposition gives you strategic differentiation.
Crafting effective propositions is challenging but necessary.
Focus on the customer’s needs, not just product features.
Keywords
customer engagement, sales proposition, brand, product, customer experience, differentiation, marketing strategy, contact center, CX, value proposition

Ep 25 | CX Insider: Phil on Sales Engineers

In this episode, Angus and Pete talk to Phil about his extensive experience in sales engineering. He emphasizes the evolution of the sales engineer's role, the importance of understanding customer needs, and the critical nature of collaboration with product management. The conversation also covers the significance of demos, navigating RFPs, and the training and development of sales engineers. Phil shares valuable insights and pearls of wisdom for those in the sales engineering field.
Takeaways
Understanding customer needs is crucial for effective sales.
Demos should be tailored to the customer's specific requirements.
Building relationships with customers is key to success.
Collaboration with sellers and product management is vital for sales engineers.
Training and developing sales engineers is an ongoing process.
Listening and asking the right questions can lead to better outcomes.
The sales engineering landscape is changing with the introduction of new technologies.
Keywords
customer engagement, sales engineering, demos, RFPs, product management, training, sales relationships, customer needs, sales process, technology

Ep 24 | The Outbound Odyssey

In this episode, Angus and Pete discuss the evolution and current state of dialers in CX and contact centers. They cover a bit of background, the various modes of dialing, the impact of digital channels on customer communication, and the integration of outbound voice and digital strategies to enhance customer experience. The conversation highlights the importance of understanding regulations and the need for a seamless customer journey across different communication channels.
Takeaways
Dialers are still very relevant in customer engagement strategies.
Digital channels are becoming the default for customer interactions.
Asynchronous message channels see higher engagement rates than voice calls.
Voice communication remains the go-to for urgent matters.
It’s not about “what channel?”, but “how do you use them all together?"
Successful outbound uses a digital first approach
Digital channels + outbound voice could make the inbound CC obsolete.
Keywords
Customer Engagement, Dialler, Dialers, Digital Channels, Customer Experience, Outbound Calls, Predictive Dialling, Dialing, Voice Communication, Asynchronous Messaging, Customer Satisfaction, CX

Ep 23 | AI Business Benefit: Is it Here Yet?

In this episode, Angus and Pete look at the impact AI is really having on the CX industry and people, jobs and the customer experience. The conversation highlights the need for a clear understanding of current capabilities and the challenges faced in data management and legal considerations. Ultimately, they emphasize the importance of a strategic approach to AI in customer engagement encompassing employee training and cultural change.
Takeaways
Evidence of AI delivering significant business benefit is still hard to find.
A lot of vendor claims seem unrealistic and lack context.
Study shows no clear evidence of AI reducing labour costs.
Businesses see more benefits when employers encourage AI use.
A strategic approach to AI is necessary for real benefits.
Training and cultural change will drive effective adoption of AI tools.
Understanding current state is crucial for accurate ROI predictions for AI.
Data quality is a significant challenge for AI deployment.
Many organisations see security and privacy as the top challenge in AI deployment.
Keywords
customer engagement, CFO, financial metrics, ROI, project viability, compliance, opportunity cost, resource allocation, business case, customer experience
 

Ep 22 | Sign-off: The CFO

In this episode, Angus and Pete focus on the critical role of CFOs in evaluating business proposals. The conversation highlights the need for CX and Contact Centre sellers to articulate their proposals in a way that resonates with financial stakeholders, ensuring that all aspects of a project are thoroughly considered before seeking approval.
Takeaways
Highlight Strategic Alignment: Clearly demonstrate how the project aligns with the organization's strategic objectives (e.g., market expansion, operational efficiency, or innovation) and delivers measurable business value.
Emphasize Financial Viability: Provide a detailed financial analysis, including ROI, TCO, payback period, and potential cost savings or efficiency gains. Ensure assumptions are realistic and supported by data.
Address Risks and Mitigation: Outline key risks (financial, operational, or market) and provide robust mitigation strategies. Projects with an acceptable risk profile and clear contingency plans are more likely to be approved.
Show Scalability and Long-term Benefits: Demonstrate how the project positions the company for future growth, supports scalability, and adapts to evolving market or technological trends.
Consider Stakeholder Perspectives: Incorporate insights from the CEO (strategic vision), CIO (technological feasibility and security), and other key stakeholders to present a well-rounded case that addresses all critical evaluation criteria.
Keywords
customer engagement, CFO, financial metrics, ROI, project viability, compliance, opportunity cost, resource allocation, business case, customer experience

Ep 21 | CX Insider: Terry on the RFP Game

In this conversation, Terry shares his extensive experience in CX and Contact Centre sales, particularly in the public sector. He discusses the differences between public and private sector sales, the intricacies of the RFP process, and the importance of understanding the bidding landscape. Terry emphasizes the need for honesty in the procurement process and the significance of social value in public sector contracts. He also categorizes different types of RFPs and shares insights on how to navigate the tender process effectively.
Takeaways
Most public sector procurements try to get the best for their organisation.
The public sector sales process is structured but challenging.
Understanding the cost gate is crucial in public sector bidding.
The average success rate for cold tenders is between 7-8%.
Not all public procurement processes are fair and transparent.
RFPs often includes poorly articulated and unrealistic requirements.
Engaging in early market conversations can influence procurement processes.
Honesty in the tender process can lead to better outcomes for all parties.
Social value is a critical component of public sector contracts.
May the 4th should be a national holiday for Star Wars fans.
Keywords
customer experience, public sector, sales, RFP, bidding process, social value, procurement, tender process, business development, honesty

Ep 20 | The Devil is in the Discovery

In this episode, Angus and Pete, focus on the discovery process in sales. They discuss the importance of understanding customer pain points, engaging multiple stakeholders, and the role of technology and AI in enhancing customer experience. The conversation emphasizes the need for thoughtful questioning and effective stakeholder management to ensure successful outcomes in sales processes.
Takeaways
Discovery is not just one step; it's everywhere in the sales process.
Ask thoughtful questions that encourage the buyer to think differently.
Engage with multiple stakeholders to gather diverse insights.
Understand the customer's current state and pain points thoroughly.
Define future goals to align solutions with customer needs.
Pay attention to current attitudes to AI and cultural factors.
Start discovery with a focus on reporting and analytics.
Stakeholder management is key to successful discovery.
Pre- and post-sales discovery findings should be tied in to each other.
Keywords
customer engagement, discovery process, sales strategy, customer experience, stakeholder management, AI in CX, contact center metrics, reporting, customer pain points, technology in sales

Ep 19 | CX Insider: Dan on Service Levels & Perils

In this episode, Angus and Pete talk to CX Insider Dan, a seasoned expert in contact centres and customer experience operations management. They discuss the evolution of customer service, especially in the post-COVID landscape. They explore the challenges faced by customer service operations, the impact of data transparency, the importance of agent wellness and the role of leadership in fostering a supportive work environment. Dan shares valuable insights on how businesses can improve their customer service strategies by understanding employee needs to drive performance.
You can see more about Dan, read his articles and contact him here:https://www.linkedin.com/in/piperdaniel/  
Takeaways
The COVID-19 pandemic has drastically changed customer service expectations. It’s made customers less demanding, and many businesses are still hiding in the customer service fog of the pandemic.
Data transparency within businesses is essential for making challenges visible and gaining stakeholder support.
Agent wellness is crucial for maintaining effective customer service operations.
Performance in customer service is driven by behaviour, not data.
Technology should enhance human interaction, not replace it.
Leadership must be involved in fostering a supportive work environment.
Don’t even think about throwing technology at a problem before you have optimised your processes and your people.
Keywords
customer engagement, CX, technology, analysts, customer experience, AI, market trends, industry insights, innovation, business strategy

Ep 18 | On Your Marks. Get Set. Demo!

In this episode, Angus and Pete focus on the critical role of demos in the buying process. They discuss various types of demos, their appropriate applications, and the importance of tailoring presentations to the audience. The conversation emphasizes the need for effective communication, storytelling, and understanding the buyer's journey to enhance customer experience and drive sales success.
Takeaways
Demos are tools, not destinations.
Demos are valid at all stages of the buying process.
Know which type of demo to use at the right time.
Understand your audience and tailor your message accordingly.
Make demos interactive and relatable.
Use real-world examples and storytelling to engage buyers.
Focus on pain points during sales demos.
Prepare thoroughly before conducting a demo.
Every feature should tie back to a business pain.
Demos can drive adoption and optimization post-sale.
It’s a demo not a training course!
Keywords
customer engagement, sales demos, technical demos, customer experience, demo types, sales process, buyer journey, training, stakeholder management, storytelling

Ep 17 | CX Insider: Steve on Analysts

In the first of the CX Insider episodes, Angus & Pete explore the role of analysts in the CX space together with an insider guest, Steve. He shares his insights from years of experience as an analyst, discusses the challenges faced by them and how they operate.
Takeaways
The analyst community is very aware of the need to be seen to be open, honest and impartial.
The magic quadrant and similar reports are a rear-view mirror of the market.
Analyst commentary and outputs are evolving to keep up with the pace of CX technology development.
Some analysts are focussed on helping buyers spend their money wisely, but not all.
There is a difference between analysts who can influence buyer decisions and those who amplify vendor messages.
The value to vendors of holding analyst events in exotic locations is questionable and may even be counterproductive.
Integrating technology is now less important that aligning businesses, departments and personal agendas to reap the benefits of it.
The UK is a nation of CX investors and innovators and should embrace it.
Angus & Pete pretty much got it right in Episode 1.
Keywords
customer engagement, CX, technology, analysts, customer experience, AI, market trends, industry insights, innovation, business strategy

Ep 16 | Business Case or Basket Case

In this episode, Angus and Pete discuss the importance of understanding stakeholders when presenting business cases. The conversation also highlights strategies for crafting compelling proposals and navigating the complexities of boardroom dynamics, emphasizing the need for preparation and awareness of potential objections.
Takeaways
Understanding stakeholders is crucial for successful sales.
Sales champions may lack experience in presenting business cases.
A compelling business case should clearly state the problem.
Navigating boardroom dynamics requires knowledge of key players.
Business cases presentations to the board must address the cost of inaction.
Quick wins can help persuade decision-makers.
Prediction of likely objections and how to handle them is important preparation.
Researching company ownership can reveal hidden decision-makers.
Effective champions can improve sales outcomes.
Keywords
customer engagement, AI, sales, business case, boardroom dynamics, stakeholder management, customer service, ethics, accent modification, sales challenges

Ep 15 | AI = Satisfaction Guaranteed?

In this episode, Angus and Pete discuss the timing of customer feedback, and the evolving metrics in customer experience. They explore how AI is transforming customer satisfaction measurement and the significance of sentiment analysis. The conversation also highlights the risks associated with AI and the necessity of human oversight in customer service interactions.
Takeaways
Traditional metrics like average handle time may not reflect true customer satisfaction.
AI can enhance real-time customer experience analysis.
Sentiment analysis is becoming a vital metric in understanding customer emotions.
Real-time feedback allows for immediate adjustments in service.
AI may be able to predict customer behaviour and churn rates.
Human oversight is essential in AI-driven customer service.
Understanding the risks of AI is crucial for effective implementation.
Customer experience should focus on ease and personalization.
Keywords
customer engagement, customer experience, AI in customer service, customer feedback, metrics, sentiment analysis, customer satisfaction, real-time analysis, retrospective analysis, risks of AI

Ep 14 | This Little Piggy Went To Market

In this episode, Angus and Pete delve into the different stages of activity required when building a new CX or Customer Engagement practice. The discussion focuses on the activities in the early stages of the process. They examine the importance of understanding the reseller-vendor relationship, and the various commercial models that can be employed. The conversation also covers billing expectations, onboarding processes, and how you should build your market offering so that you can sell successfully.
Takeaways
Building a go-to-market capability requires a structured approach.
Understanding vendor relationships is crucial for successful engagement.
Commercial models can vary and impact profitability and operational models.
Legal and billing processes should be prioritized early in the process.
Successful onboarding is essential for enabling sales teams effectively.
Sales enablement involves educating and motivating the sales force.
Deployment is not just about launching a product but also about driving adoption.
A two-way relationship with your vendor of choice is key to success in the cloud service model.
Keywords
customer engagement, go-to-market strategy, vendor relationships, commercial models, pricing strategies, billing, onboarding, sales enablement, deployment, customer experience

Ep 13 | Pitch Perfect

In this episode, Angus and Pete investigate the anatomy of the CX and Customer Engagement sales pitch. They discuss the importance of understanding buyer psychology, the need for clear and concise sales pitches, and the role of demo’s in the sales process. The conversation emphasizes minimizing risk for buyers and making effective recommendations. The hosts provide practical tips for sales professionals to enhance their approach and build trust with clients.
Takeaways
Personal agendas make the world go round.
Make a clear recommendation to simplify choices.
Too many options lead to confusion and indecision.
Keep technical details for emergencies only.
Tell stories instead of relying on bullet points.
Remove perceived risks to facilitate decision-making.
Start with small wins to build trust.
Keywords
customer engagement, sales strategies, buyer psychology, sales pitches, minimizing risk, technology in sales, customer experience, sales process, effective communication, sales recommendations

Ep 12 | A Little Bit More About EMEA

In this episode, Angus and Pete explore the multifaceted world of customer engagement, focusing on cultural differences in business practices across various regions. They delve into the nuances of meeting etiquette in Sweden, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, and Serbia as examples of diversity in the EMEA market and highlight the importance of compliance and data protection. The conversation also touches on the intricacies of business entertainment and how it varies by culture, emphasizing the need for understanding and adapting to local customs and conventions.
Takeaways
Cultural differences are mirrored in business interactions.
Sweden is known for its efficiency in meetings.
Personal relationships in business are important in Saudi Arabia, South Africa and Serbia
Data protection is a priority across all discussed regions.
Business entertainment practices vary widely by culture.
If you're going out for a business dinner in Serbia, wear your drinking trousers.
Other countries are available.
Keywords
customer engagement, business culture, cultural differences, meeting etiquette, data protection, business entertainment, customer experience, global business, compliance, international relations

Ep 11 | EMEA? Why isn't it like the USA?

In this episode of the Angus and Pete Show, the hosts explore the intricacies and the differences between the EMEA and US Customer Engagement and CX markets. They discuss cultural complexities, regulatory challenges, and effective actions for entering the EMEA market. The conversation emphasizes the importance of understanding local nuances and building trust in diverse markets, while also providing key takeaways for businesses looking to expand their reach.
Takeaways
The EMEA market is significantly different from the US market.
Cultural and linguistic diversity in EMEA complicates customer engagement.
Regulatory challenges vary greatly across EMEA countries.
Go-to-Market strategies must be tailored to local markets.
Building trust and long-term relationships is crucial in EMEA.
Understanding local customs and practices is essential for success.
Experience and local knowledge are invaluable when entering new markets.
The importance of working within local regulations and conventions.
The best way to learn is to experience EMEA in person.
Keywords
customer engagement, EMEA, US market, cultural complexities, regulatory challenges, sales strategies, customer experience, podcast, Angus and Pete Show